[sane-devel] Canon Scanner P-208 II

[Oliver Jan Krylow]

Hello!

Currently on the supported devices page the device "P-208II | USB |
0x1083/0x165f" is listed as "Untested".

I'd like to announce a my test results for that device.

Frontend :Simple Scan 3.20.0 under Fedora 24
Backend : canon_dr:libusb
Sane version: 1.0.25
Manufacturer: Canon
Device: P-208II

What works
--------------

* All resolutions as specified in specifications
* Simplex and Duplex ("Scan multiple images" in frontend needs to be
used)
* Staple Scans

What does not work
--------------------------

* Everything "CaptureOnTouch"-related
* "Auto Start" switch on the device has to be set to "OFF", otherwise
the device will not be found
* Automatic de-skew
* White page ignore on staple scan
* Poor colour calibration
* See sample :
https://box.bugabinga.net/cloud/index.php/s/HZKAgFbsQd4Ix08
* See (manually) colour corrected sample to get an idea as to what was
roughly expected:
https://box.bugabinga.net/cloud/index.php/s/JxAbh2Md2stwfPG



Thank you for your efforts and let me know if there is more for me to
test,

O.

[Thomas Geier]

Hi,

I think this is the known state for this scanner, which are the same as
for the P-208 (without II). There is a Sane driver that can be
downloaded from Canon with sources included. Apparently it was built
against a very old version of sane, and I was not able to compile it.
Maybe the missing parts (e.g. for color calibration and deskew) can be
taken from this code?

Best,

Thomas

Post by Oliver Jan Krylow
Hello!
Currently on the supported devices page the device "P-208II | USB
| 0x1083/0x165f" is listed as "Untested".
I'd like to announce a my test results for that device.
Frontend :Simple Scan 3.20.0 under Fedora 24
Backend : canon_dr:libusb
Sane version: 1.0.25
Manufacturer: Canon
Device: P-208II
What works
--------------
* All resolutions as specified in specifications
* Simplex and Duplex ("Scan multiple images" in frontend needs to be used)
* Staple Scans
What does not work
--------------------------
* Everything "CaptureOnTouch"-related
* "Auto Start" switch on the device has to be set to "OFF", otherwise
the device will not be found
* Automatic de-skew
* White page ignore on staple scan
* Poor colour calibration
* See sample : https://box.bugabinga.net/cloud/index.php/s/HZKAgFbsQd4Ix08
* See (manually) colour corrected sample to get an idea as to what was
https://box.bugabinga.net/cloud/index.php/s/JxAbh2Md2stwfPG
Thank you for your efforts and let me know if there is more for me to
test,
O.

[m. allan noah]

The canon_dr sane backend already has a deskew option. It is a
software implementation, as only the most expensive Canon machines
have hardware deskew.

I might be able to borrow from the canon driver, if it has a
compatible license with sane, and the source is truly included. Do you
have a link?

In the meantime, the brightness and contrast controls provided by the
backend might help.

allan

Hi,
I think this is the known state for this scanner, which are the same as for
the P-208 (without II). There is a Sane driver that can be downloaded from
Canon with sources included. Apparently it was built against a very old
version of sane, and I was not able to compile it. Maybe the missing parts
(e.g. for color calibration and deskew) can be taken from this code?
Best,
Thomas
Hello!
Currently on the supported devices page the device "P-208II | USB |
0x1083/0x165f" is listed as "Untested".
I'd like to announce a my test results for that device.
Frontend :Simple Scan 3.20.0 under Fedora 24
Backend : canon_dr:libusb
Sane version: 1.0.25
Manufacturer: Canon
Device: P-208II
What works
--------------
* All resolutions as specified in specifications
* Simplex and Duplex ("Scan multiple images" in frontend needs to be used)
* Staple Scans
What does not work
--------------------------
* Everything "CaptureOnTouch"-related
* "Auto Start" switch on the device has to be set to "OFF", otherwise the
device will not be found
* Automatic de-skew
* White page ignore on staple scan
* Poor colour calibration
* See sample : https://box.bugabinga.net/cloud/index.php/s/HZKAgFbsQd4Ix08
* See (manually) colour corrected sample to get an idea as to what was
https://box.bugabinga.net/cloud/index.php/s/JxAbh2Md2stwfPG
Thank you for your efforts and let me know if there is more for me to test,
O.
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[Oliver Jan Krylow]

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[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi Oliver,

Post by Oliver Jan Krylow
http://www.canon.de/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=&os=#disclaimer

While I do understand a fair bit of German, I wouldn't want to agree to
any license agreement written in it ;-)

Here's a link that gives an English version for the 32-bit Linux
driver. There is no 64-bit driver.

http://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=EN&os=Linux%20%2832-bit%29

Everyone should read the whole license themselves, but it has:

You are not permitted to: (1) [...] convey, transfer, copy, modify,
adapt, merge, translate, convert to another programming language,
reverse-engineer, decompile, modify, alter, disassemble or create
derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Software [...];
(2) reproduce or deal in the Software or any part thereof, or allow
any third party to reproduce or deal in the Software or any part
thereof, in any way, except as expressly permitted by this Agreement
[...].

That looks extremely bleak. But, near the end, it also says:

Other license terms: When you install the software you may be required
to accept another end user license agreement which corresponds to the
specific software you are installing. [...] In the event of any
contradiction or inconsistency between the terms of such end user
license agreement and these license terms, in respect of the software
you are installing, the terms of such end user license agreement shall
prevail.

So I decided to have a look. The source tarball and debian package in
the zip archive (didn't look at the rpm but assume it to be the same)
contain a LICENSE-p208II-1.00E.txt file that says, amongst a pile of
other things you really should read yourself:

1.GRANT OF LICENSE
[...] You may modify the Software only for your own use and reverse
engineer the same for debugging such modifications. [...]

2.RESTRICTIONS
Except as expressly granted or permitted herein, you shall not use,
assign, sublicense, sell, rent, lease, loan, convey or transfer to any
third party the Software.

[...]

IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THE USE OF FREE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS BEING
LICENSED UNDER GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE

This product "Canon ImageFOMULA Scanner Driver for Linux vx.xx"
("Product") of Canon Electronics Inc. ("Canon") contains the free
software components as listed in Schedule 2 of Exhibit attached
hereto, and which are licensed under GNU General Public License
version 2 published by the Free Software Foundation ("GPL").

Such free software components are free software; you can redistribute
them and/or modify them under the terms of GPL.

[...]

Schedule 2

canondr_com_usb.1.1.0
libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0
canondr.conf

OK, so those parts are GPL. Let's have a look then.

I only took a quick look but libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 basically just
gets the list of supported options from a configuration file and uses
SANE's network protocol to "outsource" all of to a stripped binary by
the name of canondr_backendp208II.

This binary is execl()d from libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0, just as the
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 USB communication utility. canondr_backendp208II
is handed file descriptors that enable it to use canondr_com_usb.1.1.0.

Source code for libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 as canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 does
not contain anything that might be of interest.

Nothing useful for the SANE project but hope this helps anyway,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2 FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
Support Free Software https://my.fsf.org/donate
Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join

[Thomas Geier]

But they link their code against SANE, and SANE is GPL licensed. So
doesn't this enforce their code to be GPL licensed, independent of what
they say?

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Oliver,

Post by Oliver Jan Krylow
http://www.canon.de/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=&os=#disclaimer

While I do understand a fair bit of German, I wouldn't want to agree to
any license agreement written in it ;-)
Here's a link that gives an English version for the 32-bit Linux
driver. There is no 64-bit driver.
http://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=EN&os=Linux%20%2832-bit%29
You are not permitted to: (1) [...] convey, transfer, copy, modify,
adapt, merge, translate, convert to another programming language,
reverse-engineer, decompile, modify, alter, disassemble or create
derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Software [...];
(2) reproduce or deal in the Software or any part thereof, or allow
any third party to reproduce or deal in the Software or any part
thereof, in any way, except as expressly permitted by this Agreement
[...].
Other license terms: When you install the software you may be required
to accept another end user license agreement which corresponds to the
specific software you are installing. [...] In the event of any
contradiction or inconsistency between the terms of such end user
license agreement and these license terms, in respect of the software
you are installing, the terms of such end user license agreement shall
prevail.
So I decided to have a look. The source tarball and debian package in
the zip archive (didn't look at the rpm but assume it to be the same)
contain a LICENSE-p208II-1.00E.txt file that says, amongst a pile of
1.GRANT OF LICENSE
[...] You may modify the Software only for your own use and reverse
engineer the same for debugging such modifications. [...]
2.RESTRICTIONS
Except as expressly granted or permitted herein, you shall not use,
assign, sublicense, sell, rent, lease, loan, convey or transfer to any
third party the Software.
[...]
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THE USE OF FREE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS BEING
LICENSED UNDER GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
This product "Canon ImageFOMULA Scanner Driver for Linux vx.xx"
("Product") of Canon Electronics Inc. ("Canon") contains the free
software components as listed in Schedule 2 of Exhibit attached
hereto, and which are licensed under GNU General Public License
version 2 published by the Free Software Foundation ("GPL").
Such free software components are free software; you can redistribute
them and/or modify them under the terms of GPL.
[...]
Schedule 2
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0
libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0
canondr.conf
OK, so those parts are GPL. Let's have a look then.
I only took a quick look but libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 basically just
gets the list of supported options from a configuration file and uses
SANE's network protocol to "outsource" all of to a stripped binary by
the name of canondr_backendp208II.
This binary is execl()d from libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0, just as the
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 USB communication utility. canondr_backendp208II
is handed file descriptors that enable it to use canondr_com_usb.1.1.0.
Source code for libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 as canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 does
not contain anything that might be of interest.
Nothing useful for the SANE project but hope this helps anyway,

[Oliver Jan Krylow]

My apologies, I overlooked the language in my haste.

Am I understanding this correctly, the whole driver is under some kind of proprietary license, except for some GPL'd glue code between SANE and some magic binary blob?

I don't know if this violates GPL but I have a strong urge to return the product and get my money back... :)

Post by Thomas Geier
But they link their code against SANE, and SANE is GPL licensed. So
doesn't this enforce their code to be GPL licensed, independent of what
they say?

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Oliver,

http://www.canon.de/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=&os=#disclaimer

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
While I do understand a fair bit of German, I wouldn't want to agree

to

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
any license agreement written in it ;-)
Here's a link that gives an English version for the 32-bit Linux
driver. There is no 64-bit driver.

http://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=EN&os=Linux%20%2832-bit%29

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
You are not permitted to: (1) [...] convey, transfer, copy,

modify,

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
adapt, merge, translate, convert to another programming language,
reverse-engineer, decompile, modify, alter, disassemble or create
derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Software

[...];

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
(2) reproduce or deal in the Software or any part thereof, or

allow

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
any third party to reproduce or deal in the Software or any part
thereof, in any way, except as expressly permitted by this

Agreement

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
[...].
Other license terms: When you install the software you may be

required

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
to accept another end user license agreement which corresponds to

the

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
specific software you are installing. [...] In the event of any
contradiction or inconsistency between the terms of such end user
license agreement and these license terms, in respect of the

software

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
you are installing, the terms of such end user license agreement

shall

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
prevail.
So I decided to have a look. The source tarball and debian package

in

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
the zip archive (didn't look at the rpm but assume it to be the same)
contain a LICENSE-p208II-1.00E.txt file that says, amongst a pile of
1.GRANT OF LICENSE
[...] You may modify the Software only for your own use and

reverse

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
engineer the same for debugging such modifications. [...]
2.RESTRICTIONS
Except as expressly granted or permitted herein, you shall not

use,

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
assign, sublicense, sell, rent, lease, loan, convey or transfer to

any

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
third party the Software.
[...]
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THE USE OF FREE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS BEING
LICENSED UNDER GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
This product "Canon ImageFOMULA Scanner Driver for Linux vx.xx"
("Product") of Canon Electronics Inc. ("Canon") contains the free
software components as listed in Schedule 2 of Exhibit attached
hereto, and which are licensed under GNU General Public License
version 2 published by the Free Software Foundation ("GPL").
Such free software components are free software; you can

redistribute

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
them and/or modify them under the terms of GPL.
[...]
Schedule 2
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0
libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0
canondr.conf
OK, so those parts are GPL. Let's have a look then.
I only took a quick look but libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 basically just
gets the list of supported options from a configuration file and uses
SANE's network protocol to "outsource" all of to a stripped binary by
the name of canondr_backendp208II.
This binary is execl()d from libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0, just as the
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 USB communication utility.

canondr_backendp208II

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
is handed file descriptors that enable it to use

canondr_com_usb.1.1.0.

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
Source code for libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 as canondr_com_usb.1.1.0

does

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
not contain anything that might be of interest.
Nothing useful for the SANE project but hope this helps anyway,

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[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi Oliver,

Post by Oliver Jan Krylow
My apologies, I overlooked the language in my haste.
Am I understanding this correctly, the whole driver is under some kind
of proprietary license, except for some GPL'd glue code between SANE
and some magic binary blob?

That and the fact that their backend start two child processes (one of
which is the "magic" binary blob) with which it communicates.

Post by Oliver Jan Krylow
I don't know if this violates GPL but I have a strong urge to return
the product and get my money back... :)

I have currently no reason to believe it does. If you are concerned
about the need to use a non-free, 32-bit BLOB to use your scanner, then
returning it is one of your options. By the looks of it, it won't make
a decent doorstop ;-) A paperweight? Maybe.

You might add letting Canon know if you return it and tell them why.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2 FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
Support Free Software https://my.fsf.org/donate
Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join

[Olaf Meeuwissen]

Hi Thomas,

Post by Thomas Geier
But they link their code against SANE, and SANE is GPL licensed.

They link *some* of their code against *some* parts of SANE, and SANE is
GPL licensed *with a special exception* for the bulk of its code.

Post by Thomas Geier
So doesn't this enforce their code to be GPL licensed, independent of
what they say?

That depends entirely on what parts of their they link with what parts
of the SANE code *and* how the various pieces of their "backend" work.

Although I have not conducted a thorough investigation, I do not think
that their backends violates the license under which the SANE Project
releases it code.

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2 FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
Support Free Software https://my.fsf.org/donate
Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join

[Andrew Goodbody]

Post by Thomas Geier
But they link their code against SANE, and SANE is GPL licensed. So
doesn't this enforce their code to be GPL licensed, independent of what
they say?

As has already been said, the Sane exclusion probably covers them. But
if that were not so, you cannot force a GPL license on anyone. If they
do not meet their licensing obligations then they can be in violation of
that license and, in the case of the GPL, hence have no right to
distribute such code. But it does not magically change the license of
non-GPL code. Only the copyright holder can say what license applies to
their code.

Andrew

[abel deuring]

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Oliver,

Post by Oliver Jan Krylow
http://www.canon.de/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=&os=#disclaimer

While I do understand a fair bit of German, I wouldn't want to agree to
any license agreement written in it ;-)
Here's a link that gives an English version for the 32-bit Linux
driver. There is no 64-bit driver.
http://www.canon.co.uk/support/consumer_products/products/scanners/others/imageformula_p-208ii.aspx?type=drivers&language=EN&os=Linux%20%2832-bit%29

<side-issue>
What this page show,, seems to depend on the browser. Firefox told me
that _no_ drivers are available for the P208ii; Chromium gave me an
number of choices, including 32bit and 64bit version for Linux. But
selecting the 64bit version resulted with a message like "not available".
</side-issue>

More comments below.

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
You are not permitted to: (1) [...] convey, transfer, copy, modify,
adapt, merge, translate, convert to another programming language,
reverse-engineer, decompile, modify, alter, disassemble or create
derivative works based on the whole or any part of the Software [...];
(2) reproduce or deal in the Software or any part thereof, or allow
any third party to reproduce or deal in the Software or any part
thereof, in any way, except as expressly permitted by this Agreement
[...].
Other license terms: When you install the software you may be required
to accept another end user license agreement which corresponds to the
specific software you are installing. [...] In the event of any
contradiction or inconsistency between the terms of such end user
license agreement and these license terms, in respect of the software
you are installing, the terms of such end user license agreement shall
prevail.
So I decided to have a look. The source tarball and debian package in
the zip archive (didn't look at the rpm but assume it to be the same)
contain a LICENSE-p208II-1.00E.txt file that says, amongst a pile of
1.GRANT OF LICENSE
[...] You may modify the Software only for your own use and reverse
engineer the same for debugging such modifications. [...]
2.RESTRICTIONS
Except as expressly granted or permitted herein, you shall not use,
assign, sublicense, sell, rent, lease, loan, convey or transfer to any
third party the Software.
[...]
IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THE USE OF FREE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS BEING
LICENSED UNDER GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
This product "Canon ImageFOMULA Scanner Driver for Linux vx.xx"
("Product") of Canon Electronics Inc. ("Canon") contains the free
software components as listed in Schedule 2 of Exhibit attached
hereto, and which are licensed under GNU General Public License
version 2 published by the Free Software Foundation ("GPL").
Such free software components are free software; you can redistribute
them and/or modify them under the terms of GPL.
[...]
Schedule 2
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0
libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0
canondr.conf
OK, so those parts are GPL. Let's have a look then.
I only took a quick look but libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 basically just
gets the list of supported options from a configuration file and uses
SANE's network protocol to "outsource" all of to a stripped binary by
the name of canondr_backendp208II.
This binary is execl()d from libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0, just as the
canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 USB communication utility. canondr_backendp208II
is handed file descriptors that enable it to use canondr_com_usb.1.1.0.
Source code for libsane-canondr.so.1.0.0 as canondr_com_usb.1.1.0 does
not contain anything that might be of interest.
Nothing useful for the SANE project but hope this helps anyway,

Well… I understand what you are saying, and considering the confusing
terms I fully agree. But the zip file containing Canon's source code
(also available on the mentioned page on www.canon.co.uk) has even more
confusing terms:

The file src/client.c (seems to be the main source file of the backend)

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
/* Canon Electronics Scanner Driver for Linux Version 1.00
* Copyright CANON ELECTRONICS INC. 2009
* All Rights Reserved.
*
* This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
* it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
* the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
* (at your option) any later version.
*
* This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
* but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
* MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
* GNU General Public License for more details.
*
* You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
* along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
* Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA

02111-1307 USA

Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
*/

You _could_ interpret this as an offer to include the file in the main
Sane repository (in the hope that a maintainer can be found), but the
contradicting terms of the usual commerical license are too scary.

There seems to be a strange conflict at Canon between developers who
want to provide a free backend and management.

cheers
Abel