Discussion:
Saned Tutorial is not correct -
(too old to reply)
Alvaro Gil
2017-11-07 03:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Hi, the saned tutorial is not correct on this page:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial

Lots of people are having this issue:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/1577137
I posted the fix to post #32
-------------------

The problem is the documentation is not correct, it states:

for systemd we need to add 2 configuration files in
/etc/systemd/system.

This is incorrect, move the two files to:

/etc/systemd/

-------------------------------------------

after continue with the tutorial.

sudo systemctl enable saned.socket
sudo systemctl start saned.socket
systemctl status saned.socket


now it will load correctly on restart.



*Alvaro GilGil Machine and Tool*

*1053 Bushkill Drive*
*Easton, PA 18042*
*http://www.GilMachine.com/ <http://www.gilmachine.com/>*
m. allan noah
2017-11-08 12:55:51 UTC
Permalink
We are not the authors of the tutorial with the error.

allan
Post by Alvaro Gil
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/1577137
I posted the fix to post #32
-------------------
for systemd we need to add 2 configuration files in
/etc/systemd/system.
/etc/systemd/
-------------------------------------------
after continue with the tutorial.
sudo systemctl enable saned.socket
sudo systemctl start saned.socket
systemctl status saned.socket
now it will load correctly on restart.
Alvaro Gil
Gil Machine and Tool
1053 Bushkill Drive
Easton, PA 18042
http://www.GilMachine.com/
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Alex ARNAUD
2017-11-08 13:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Just to be sure we are clear: the tutorial mentioned in this thread is
on the Ubuntu Wiki and it is written by the community. You could create
an account on the Ubuntu Wiki and propose them a change to this wiki to
improve its content. It will be really help for others indeed.
Thanks for checking documentation and helping us to make GNU/Linux better.

Best regards.
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Visual-Impairment Project Manager
Hypra - "Humanizing technology"
Post by m. allan noah
We are not the authors of the tutorial with the error.
allan
Post by Alvaro Gil
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/1577137
I posted the fix to post #32
-------------------
for systemd we need to add 2 configuration files in
/etc/systemd/system.
/etc/systemd/
-------------------------------------------
after continue with the tutorial.
sudo systemctl enable saned.socket
sudo systemctl start saned.socket
systemctl status saned.socket
now it will load correctly on restart.
Alvaro Gil
Gil Machine and Tool
1053 Bushkill Drive
Easton, PA 18042
http://www.GilMachine.com/
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Alvaro Gil
2017-11-09 01:10:52 UTC
Permalink
The mistake is also in the man pages:

using Ubuntu 16.04: man saned

excerpt start:

SYSTEMD CONFIGURATION
for systemd we need to add 2 configuation files in
/etc/systemd/system. <------------------------------------ This should be
/etc/systemd

The first file we need to add here is called saned.socket. It
shall
have the following contents:

[Unit]
Description=saned incoming socket
Just to be sure we are clear: the tutorial mentioned in this thread is on
the Ubuntu Wiki and it is written by the community. You could create an
account on the Ubuntu Wiki and propose them a change to this wiki to
improve its content. It will be really help for others indeed.
Thanks for checking documentation and helping us to make GNU/Linux better.
Best regards.
--
Alex ARNAUD
Visual-Impairment Project Manager
Hypra - "Humanizing technology"
Post by m. allan noah
We are not the authors of the tutorial with the error.
allan
Post by Alvaro Gil
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sane-backends/+bug/1577137
I posted the fix to post #32
-------------------
for systemd we need to add 2 configuration files in
/etc/systemd/system.
/etc/systemd/
-------------------------------------------
after continue with the tutorial.
sudo systemctl enable saned.socket
sudo systemctl start saned.socket
systemctl status saned.socket
now it will load correctly on restart.
<https://maps.google.com/?q=ow+it+will+load+correctly+on+restart.&entry=gmail&source=g>
Alvaro Gil
Gil Machine and Tool
1053 Bushkill Drive
Easton, PA 18042
http://www.GilMachine.com/
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*http://www.GilMachine.com/ <http://www.gilmachine.com/>*
Simon Matter
2017-11-09 05:47:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alvaro Gil
using Ubuntu 16.04: man saned
SYSTEMD CONFIGURATION
for systemd we need to add 2 configuation files in
/etc/systemd/system. <------------------------------------ This should be
/etc/systemd
I'm not sure but at least on RHEL7 /etc/systemd/system seems correct. Can
it be that Ubuntu 16.04 uses an older systemd and therefore the manpage
should be changed? If yes, then this has to be done in the Ubuntu packages
of SANE.

Regards,
Simon
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Olaf Meeuwissen
2017-11-09 11:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi Alvaro,

Simon Matter writes:
(that you wrote)
Post by Simon Matter
Post by Alvaro Gil
using Ubuntu 16.04: man saned
SYSTEMD CONFIGURATION
for systemd we need to add 2 configuation files in
/etc/systemd/system. <------------------------------------ This should be
/etc/systemd
I'm not sure but at least on RHEL7 /etc/systemd/system seems correct. Can
it be that Ubuntu 16.04 uses an older systemd and therefore the manpage
should be changed? If yes, then this has to be done in the Ubuntu packages
of SANE.
Please take a look at the Directories section of the systemd manual page[1]
and the systemd.unit manual page[2] for Ubuntu 16.04LTS.

[1]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man1/systemd.1.html#contenttoc5
[2]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man5/systemd.unit.5.html

Based on my understanding of the documentation there, I would say that
Ubuntu's(?) saned manual page[3] (which is not modified from the one
that the SANE project ships in this respect) refers to the correct
directory locations. If that in some way does not work, it's first and
foremost an issue with the Ubuntu tutorial[4] and Ubuntu's systemd
and/or SANE packages.

[3]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man8/saned.8.html
[4]: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial

You may also want to take a look of the files provided by Ubuntu's
sane-utils package[5] and note that these files should be installed for
you by the package, completely obviating the need for you to configure
anything.

[5]: https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/sane-utils/filelist

Hope this helps,
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Louis Lagendijk
2017-11-09 21:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Alvaro,
(that you wrote)
Post by Simon Matter
Post by Alvaro Gil
using Ubuntu 16.04: man saned
SYSTEMD CONFIGURATION
for systemd we need to add 2 configuation files in
/etc/systemd/system. <------------------------------------ This
should
be
/etc/systemd
I'm not sure but at least on RHEL7 /etc/systemd/system seems
correct. Can
it be that Ubuntu 16.04 uses an older systemd and therefore the manpage
should be changed? If yes, then this has to be done in the Ubuntu packages
of SANE.
Please take a look at the Directories section of the systemd manual page[1]
and the systemd.unit manual page[2] for Ubuntu 16.04LTS.
[1]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man1/systemd.1.ht
ml#contenttoc5
[2]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man5/systemd.unit
.5.html
Based on my understanding of the documentation there, I would say that
Ubuntu's(?) saned manual page[3] (which is not modified from the one
that the SANE project ships in this respect) refers to the correct
directory locations. If that in some way does not work, it's first and
foremost an issue with the Ubuntu tutorial[4] and Ubuntu's systemd
and/or SANE packages.
[3]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man8/saned.8.html
[4]: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial
You may also want to take a look of the files provided by Ubuntu's
sane-utils package[5] and note that these files should be installed for
you by the package, completely obviating the need for you to
configure
anything.
[5]: https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/sane-utils/filelist
The locations mentioned in the man-page are definitely correct for
Fedora and RHEL, the only systems using systemd at the time I wrote
the systemd parts of the man-page (in 2013). For these distros they are
still correct.
Now Ubuntu may have changed some of the paths when it introduced
systemd. It may also be the case that Ubuntu does use an old version of
systemd that does not yet support the user specific units (in
/etc/systemd/user). Can somebody please confirm if other Ubuntu
versions (probably later versions) do use /etc/systemd/system?
If I can find some time I may try to clarify the man-page with the
alternate location if we can get more clarity on this.
BR, Louis
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Olaf Meeuwissen
2017-11-10 12:46:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Louis,
Post by Louis Lagendijk
Post by Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Alvaro,
(that you wrote)
Post by Simon Matter
Post by Alvaro Gil
using Ubuntu 16.04: man saned
SYSTEMD CONFIGURATION
for systemd we need to add 2 configuation files in
/etc/systemd/system. <------------------------------------ This
should
be
/etc/systemd
I'm not sure but at least on RHEL7 /etc/systemd/system seems correct. Can
it be that Ubuntu 16.04 uses an older systemd and therefore the manpage
should be changed? If yes, then this has to be done in the Ubuntu packages
of SANE.
Please take a look at the Directories section of the systemd manual page[1]
and the systemd.unit manual page[2] for Ubuntu 16.04LTS.
[1]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man1/systemd.1.ht
ml#contenttoc5
[2]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man5/systemd.unit
.5.html
Based on my understanding of the documentation there, I would say that
Ubuntu's(?) saned manual page[3] (which is not modified from the one
that the SANE project ships in this respect) refers to the correct
directory locations. If that in some way does not work, it's first and
foremost an issue with the Ubuntu tutorial[4] and Ubuntu's systemd
and/or SANE packages.
[3]: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man8/saned.8.html
[4]: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SaneDaemonTutorial
You may also want to take a look of the files provided by Ubuntu's
sane-utils package[5] and note that these files should be installed for
you by the package, completely obviating the need for you to
configure
anything.
[5]: https://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/amd64/sane-utils/filelist
The locations mentioned in the man-page are definitely correct for
the systemd parts of the man-page (in 2013). For these distros they are
still correct.
Now Ubuntu may have changed some of the paths when it introduced
systemd. It may also be the case that Ubuntu does use an old version of
systemd that does not yet support the user specific units (in
/etc/systemd/user).
Old systemd version is unlikely for Ubuntu 16.04LTS (from 2016). If
they willy-nilly change paths, the onus is on them to keep the docs in
sync, IMNSHO.
Post by Louis Lagendijk
Can somebody please confirm if other Ubuntu
versions (probably later versions) do use /etc/systemd/system?
My Devuan Jessie system doesn't *have* systemd(!), but sports an
/etc/systemd/system/ directory. Ditto for Devuan's next version.

But everyone should look at what's already in /lib/systemd/system/
instead. The Debian/Devuan packages put the necessary files there
already. You should not even need to do anything if you installed
the distribution's binary packages.

On Jessie, I get

$ dpkg -S lib/systemd/system/saned
sane-utils: /lib/systemd/system/saned.service
sane-utils: /lib/systemd/system/***@.service
sane-utils: /lib/systemd/system/saned.socket
Post by Louis Lagendijk
If I can find some time I may try to clarify the man-page with the
alternate location if we can get more clarity on this.
If the distribution packages don't do the right thing file a bug report
with the distribution. If one builds from source, /etc/systemd/system/
is the right place, according to the systemd documentation.

If the systemd documentation is wrong, bug the systemd cabal ;-)

Hope this helps,
--
Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2 FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27
GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9
Support Free Software https://my.fsf.org/donate
Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join
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